# Are query scores ordinal for different documents across queries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Elasticsearch\ **Created:** [January 30, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/are-query-scores-ordinal-for-different-documents-across-queries/15501 "2014-01-30T15:06:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 4\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Ilija\_Subasic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee7513/32.png) [@Ilija\_Subasic](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Ilija_Subasic)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 3:06pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/are-query-scores-ordinal-for-different-documents-across-queries/15501/1 "2014-01-30T15:06:59Z")
I am trying to figure out whether query scores are ordinal or not. Trying to figure this out, but have a problem with the effects coord function in Lucene's forumla would do. Basically, if I have query A that says document X is relevant with some score W, and query B which is relevant to document Y with some score V, and W \> V can I say that document X is more related A, than a document Y is related to B. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/775c8d49-fb62-4132-acf1-08ebe8b208ad%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/775c8d49-fb62-4132-acf1-08ebe8b208ad%40googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). ---
**Author:** ![Ivan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/df788c/32.png) [@Ivan](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Ivan)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2014, 11:42pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/are-query-scores-ordinal-for-different-documents-across-queries/15501/2 "2014-01-30T23:42:38Z")
Query scores are not ordinal. Lucene discourages comparing scores from different queries since the search context is important in scoring. Query norms are supposed to help normalize scores across queries, but as you discovered, that is not normally what happens. Your theory will probably hold true for many cases, but it is not 100% correct in all cases. -- Ivan On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Ilija Subasic [subasic.ilija@gmail.com](mailto:subasic.ilija@gmail.com)wrote: > I am trying to figure out whether query scores are ordinal or not. Trying > to figure this out, but have a problem with the effects coord function in > Lucene's forumla would do. Basically, if I have query A that says document > X is relevant with some score W, and query B which is relevant to document > Y with some score V, and W \> V can I say that document X is more related A, > than a document Y is related to B. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elasticsearch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > To view this discussion on the web visit > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/775c8d49-fb62-4132-acf1-08ebe8b208ad%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/775c8d49-fb62-4132-acf1-08ebe8b208ad%40googlegroups.com) > . > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CALY%3DcQA6w78ZxqDc%2BDvt7%2Bq9mKQn-KiLTpGz6-8awQtppgSm0w%40mail.gmail.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CALY%3DcQA6w78ZxqDc%2BDvt7%2Bq9mKQn-KiLTpGz6-8awQtppgSm0w%40mail.gmail.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). ---
**Author:** ![Ilija\_Subasic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/ee7513/32.png) [@Ilija\_Subasic](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Ilija_Subasic)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2014, 12:48am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/are-query-scores-ordinal-for-different-documents-across-queries/15501/3 "2014-01-31T00:48:48Z")
Thanks for confirming my suggestions. Even though the statement would stand in general, since it is not ordinal it can only produce ranking, right? So, if I would change the scoring function to be simple cosine of tf.idf weights it should be ordinal. Can I do this in MLT query? Thanks again On Friday, January 31, 2014 12:42:38 AM UTC+1, Ivan Brusic wrote: > Query scores are not ordinal. Lucene discourages comparing scores from > different queries since the search context is important in scoring. Query > norms are supposed to help normalize scores across queries, but as you > discovered, that is not normally what happens. Your theory will probably > hold true for many cases, but it is not 100% correct in all cases. > > -- > Ivan > > On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 7:06 AM, Ilija Subasic \<[subasi...@gmail.com](mailto:subasi...@gmail.com)\ > > > wrote: > > > I am trying to figure out whether query scores are ordinal or not. Trying > > to figure this out, but have a problem with the effects coord function in > > Lucene's forumla would do. Basically, if I have query A that says document > > X is relevant with some score W, and query B which is relevant to document > > Y with some score V, and W \> V can I say that document X is more related A, > > than a document Y is related to B. > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "elasticsearch" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com) \. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/775c8d49-fb62-4132-acf1-08ebe8b208ad%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/775c8d49-fb62-4132-acf1-08ebe8b208ad%40googlegroups.com) > > . > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/6a1d27e7-fcc3-47c4-9447-330555235bcb%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/6a1d27e7-fcc3-47c4-9447-330555235bcb%40googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/groups/opt\_out](https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out). ---
**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/original/3X/1/a/1ac57faf039f6b580b3f104ef42a2a89e41014de.png) [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 1:53am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/are-query-scores-ordinal-for-different-documents-across-queries/15501/4 "2017-07-06T01:53:49Z")