# Best pratices for Ops guys

**URL:** <https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997>\
**Category:** Elasticsearch\
**Created:** [May 16, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997 "2013-05-16T19:30:49Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 12\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Alexis\_Okuwa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/alexis_okuwa/32/1983_2.png) [@Alexis\_Okuwa](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Alexis_Okuwa)\
**Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/1 "2013-05-16T19:30:49Z")

</div>

I really been looking for one place that gives some great config settings  
changes suggestions for us ops guys and how to setup an elasticsearch  
cluster cpu to shard ratios how many replicas to have. IOPS to disk size  
ratio that sort of intresting stuff.

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**Author:** ![btiernay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bb73d2/32.png) [@btiernay](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/btiernay)\
**Post date:** [May 16, 2013, 11:32pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/2 "2013-05-16T23:32:24Z")

</div>

I don't know if this helps you with all of these concerns, but I found it  
tremendously useful:

[http://asquera.de/opensource/2012/11/25/elasticsearch-pre-flight-checklist/](http://asquera.de/opensource/2012/11/25/elasticsearch-pre-flight-checklist/)

On Thursday, 16 May 2013 15:30:49 UTC-4, Wojons Tech wrote:

> I really been looking for one place that gives some great config settings  
> changes suggestions for us ops guys and how to setup an elasticsearch  
> cluster cpu to shard ratios how many replicas to have. IOPS to disk size  
> ratio that sort of intresting stuff.

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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [May 17, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/3 "2013-05-17T21:37:15Z")

</div>

I have done a little experimenting in that area but the material is  
quite large for my tight time schedule to write it up in a reasonable  
blog post or something, I know it's awful.

Here is the essence of my thoughts to your questions.

CPU to shard ratio: a shard is a Lucene index, so the answer depends on  
the size of the shards you create and the power of the CPU for Lucene  
queries. I recommend shard sizes around 1 GB so they can be handled by  
replication / recovery in a few seconds. The network bandwidth must be  
there for that. Once the cluster is up, check your query load  
distribution. Then my rule of thumb is "one shard per CPU core". The  
basic idea is, you can put load on the CPU and it can execute requests  
on every shard on the node without delay. In reality, Lucene is  
multithreaded, and not every shard is involved in queries, so you can  
put more shards on a node. A node should be able to serve around  
100-1000 qps with current CPU cores and network interfaces (total  
turnaround time with all the latencies, I measured for average random  
term queries of 250-500 qps on an AMD Opteron 4170 six core - YMMV with  
large docs and mappings). Advantage of ES is, you can take bread and  
butter CPUs out there and spread it over many machines very easily by  
adding nodes to the ES cluster, without compromising the response time.  
A performance factor might be different shard sizes on a node according  
to the index sizes, but there is not much you can do about that, unless  
you have control about all the indexes are equally sized, which is far  
from reailty.

IOPS to disk size ratio: you won't have to care much about disk size as  
they are today if you have a suitable SAS2/SATA3 RAID controller  
(6Gbit/s) and enough PCIe lanes for disk transfer. That is, use disk  
sizes you can get that fit to your HBA (currently available sizes are  
500 GB and up) . Due to your layout of the ES cluster for massive  
indexing, you may have to cope with write IO challenges, which often  
originates in wrong balanced CPU / Disk performance ratio of the  
hardware of a node. Read IO challenges are rare because you can ramp up  
vast amount of RAM, and mmap the whole ES process. Plus, Java NIO is  
well managed by OS filesystem (here, JRE 7 NIO2 provides more  
interesting features than a JRE 6 NIO but that is another topic, mainly  
for Netty). Adding disks to your system that are fast helps a lot. IOPS  
does not matter anymore with SSD, they go through the roof. Run your ES  
indexes on SSD and you want never go back to spindle disks. Small SSD  
can be configured as RAID 0 for best write performance. I measured 1.5  
GBytes reads per second and 800 GBytes writes per second with four 128G  
Plextor M5S SSDs in a RAID 0 on an LSI 2008 HBA. There is no need to set  
up RAID 1 or higher because of the built-in redundancy of ES replica  
setting. If a disk subsystem fails, let the whole node happily fail -  
you still have the cluster up and running.

If you have more questions, just ask

Jörg

Am 16.05.13 21:30, schrieb Wojons Tech:

> I really been looking for one place that gives some great config  
> settings changes suggestions for us ops guys and how to setup an  
> elasticsearch cluster cpu to shard ratios how many replicas to have.  
> IOPS to disk size ratio that sort of intresting stuff. --

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**Author:** ![Alexis\_Okuwa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/alexis_okuwa/32/1983_2.png) [@Alexis\_Okuwa](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Alexis_Okuwa)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 12:27am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/4 "2013-05-18T00:27:13Z")

</div>

Thank you so much for the help normally i would point out, friends dont let  
friends raid 0 but i can see your point with this. If your speaking about  
the upto 1k qps per core at 1gig of disk space seems a little low what  
happens when you start having indexes in the terbyte size?

On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Jörg Prante [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) wrote:

> I have done a little experimenting in that area but the material is quite  
> large for my tight time schedule to write it up in a reasonable blog post  
> or something, I know it's awful.
> 
> Here is the essence of my thoughts to your questions.
> 
> CPU to shard ratio: a shard is a Lucene index, so the answer depends on  
> the size of the shards you create and the power of the CPU for Lucene  
> queries. I recommend shard sizes around 1 GB so they can be handled by  
> replication / recovery in a few seconds. The network bandwidth must be  
> there for that. Once the cluster is up, check your query load distribution.  
> Then my rule of thumb is "one shard per CPU core". The basic idea is, you  
> can put load on the CPU and it can execute requests on every shard on the  
> node without delay. In reality, Lucene is multithreaded, and not every  
> shard is involved in queries, so you can put more shards on a node. A node  
> should be able to serve around 100-1000 qps with current CPU cores and  
> network interfaces (total turnaround time with all the latencies, I  
> measured for average random term queries of 250-500 qps on an AMD Opteron  
> 4170 six core - YMMV with large docs and mappings). Advantage of ES is, you  
> can take bread and butter CPUs out there and spread it over many machines  
> very easily by adding nodes to the ES cluster, without compromising the  
> response time. A performance factor might be different shard sizes on a  
> node according to the index sizes, but there is not much you can do about  
> that, unless you have control about all the indexes are equally sized,  
> which is far from reailty.
> 
> IOPS to disk size ratio: you won't have to care much about disk size as  
> they are today if you have a suitable SAS2/SATA3 RAID controller (6Gbit/s)  
> and enough PCIe lanes for disk transfer. That is, use disk sizes you can  
> get that fit to your HBA (currently available sizes are 500 GB and up) .  
> Due to your layout of the ES cluster for massive indexing, you may have to  
> cope with write IO challenges, which often originates in wrong balanced CPU  
> / Disk performance ratio of the hardware of a node. Read IO challenges are  
> rare because you can ramp up vast amount of RAM, and mmap the whole ES  
> process. Plus, Java NIO is well managed by OS filesystem (here, JRE 7 NIO2  
> provides more interesting features than a JRE 6 NIO but that is another  
> topic, mainly for Netty). Adding disks to your system that are fast helps a  
> lot. IOPS does not matter anymore with SSD, they go through the roof. Run  
> your ES indexes on SSD and you want never go back to spindle disks. Small  
> SSD can be configured as RAID 0 for best write performance. I measured 1.5  
> GBytes reads per second and 800 GBytes writes per second with four 128G  
> Plextor M5S SSDs in a RAID 0 on an LSI 2008 HBA. There is no need to set up  
> RAID 1 or higher because of the built-in redundancy of ES replica setting.  
> If a disk subsystem fails, let the whole node happily fail - you still have  
> the cluster up and running.
> 
> If you have more questions, just ask
> 
> Jörg
> 
> Am 16.05.13 21:30, schrieb Wojons Tech:
> 
> I really been looking for one place that gives some great config settings
> 
> > changes suggestions for us ops guys and how to setup an elasticsearch  
> > cluster cpu to shard ratios how many replicas to have. IOPS to disk size  
> > ratio that sort of intresting stuff. --
> 
> --  
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--  
Enjoy,  
Alexis Okuwa  
WojonsTech  
424.835.1223

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**Author:** ![Damien\_Hardy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/779978/32.png) [@Damien\_Hardy](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Damien_Hardy)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 6:58am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/5 "2013-05-18T06:58:48Z")

</div>

Hello,

As ES can handle a bunch of disks, no need to aggregate them as Raid0, just  
give it a list of mount points (one for each disk), coma separated.

Best regards,

--  
Damien  
Le 18 mai 2013 02:27, "wojonstech" [wojonstech@gmail.com](mailto:wojonstech@gmail.com) a écrit :

> Thank you so much for the help normally i would point out, friends dont  
> let friends raid 0 but i can see your point with this. If your speaking  
> about the upto 1k qps per core at 1gig of disk space seems a little low  
> what happens when you start having indexes in the terbyte size?
> 
> On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 2:37 PM, Jörg Prante [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com)wrote:
> 
> > I have done a little experimenting in that area but the material is quite  
> > large for my tight time schedule to write it up in a reasonable blog post  
> > or something, I know it's awful.
> > 
> > Here is the essence of my thoughts to your questions.
> > 
> > CPU to shard ratio: a shard is a Lucene index, so the answer depends on  
> > the size of the shards you create and the power of the CPU for Lucene  
> > queries. I recommend shard sizes around 1 GB so they can be handled by  
> > replication / recovery in a few seconds. The network bandwidth must be  
> > there for that. Once the cluster is up, check your query load distribution.  
> > Then my rule of thumb is "one shard per CPU core". The basic idea is, you  
> > can put load on the CPU and it can execute requests on every shard on the  
> > node without delay. In reality, Lucene is multithreaded, and not every  
> > shard is involved in queries, so you can put more shards on a node. A node  
> > should be able to serve around 100-1000 qps with current CPU cores and  
> > network interfaces (total turnaround time with all the latencies, I  
> > measured for average random term queries of 250-500 qps on an AMD Opteron  
> > 4170 six core - YMMV with large docs and mappings). Advantage of ES is, you  
> > can take bread and butter CPUs out there and spread it over many machines  
> > very easily by adding nodes to the ES cluster, without compromising the  
> > response time. A performance factor might be different shard sizes on a  
> > node according to the index sizes, but there is not much you can do about  
> > that, unless you have control about all the indexes are equally sized,  
> > which is far from reailty.
> > 
> > IOPS to disk size ratio: you won't have to care much about disk size as  
> > they are today if you have a suitable SAS2/SATA3 RAID controller (6Gbit/s)  
> > and enough PCIe lanes for disk transfer. That is, use disk sizes you can  
> > get that fit to your HBA (currently available sizes are 500 GB and up) .  
> > Due to your layout of the ES cluster for massive indexing, you may have to  
> > cope with write IO challenges, which often originates in wrong balanced CPU  
> > / Disk performance ratio of the hardware of a node. Read IO challenges are  
> > rare because you can ramp up vast amount of RAM, and mmap the whole ES  
> > process. Plus, Java NIO is well managed by OS filesystem (here, JRE 7 NIO2  
> > provides more interesting features than a JRE 6 NIO but that is another  
> > topic, mainly for Netty). Adding disks to your system that are fast helps a  
> > lot. IOPS does not matter anymore with SSD, they go through the roof. Run  
> > your ES indexes on SSD and you want never go back to spindle disks. Small  
> > SSD can be configured as RAID 0 for best write performance. I measured 1.5  
> > GBytes reads per second and 800 GBytes writes per second with four 128G  
> > Plextor M5S SSDs in a RAID 0 on an LSI 2008 HBA. There is no need to set up  
> > RAID 1 or higher because of the built-in redundancy of ES replica setting.  
> > If a disk subsystem fails, let the whole node happily fail - you still have  
> > the cluster up and running.
> > 
> > If you have more questions, just ask
> > 
> > Jörg
> > 
> > Am 16.05.13 21:30, schrieb Wojons Tech:
> > 
> > I really been looking for one place that gives some great config
> > 
> > > settings changes suggestions for us ops guys and how to setup an  
> > > elasticsearch cluster cpu to shard ratios how many replicas to have. IOPS  
> > > to disk size ratio that sort of intresting stuff. --
> > 
> > --  
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the  
> > Google Groups "elasticsearch" group.  
> > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/](https://groups.google.com/d/)\*\*  
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> > .  
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> > .
> 
> --  
> Enjoy,  
> Alexis Okuwa  
> WojonsTech  
> 424.835.1223
> 
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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 7:43am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/6 "2013-05-18T07:43:58Z")

</div>

I don't understand the 1 gig of disk space, but there is no problem with  
TB size in ES. Just use your LVM and set up LVs for RAID0 PVs  
[http://www.redhat.com/magazine/009jul05/features/lvm2/](http://www.redhat.com/magazine/009jul05/features/lvm2/) or use ZFS

Because my servers are always fully equipped with drives I don't think  
about adding drives to LVM in a node. Adding nodes to ES is much easier.

Jörg

Am 18.05.13 02:27, schrieb wojonstech:

> If your speaking about the upto 1k qps per core at 1gig of disk space  
> seems a little low what happens when you start having indexes in the  
> terbyte size?

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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 7:45am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/7 "2013-05-18T07:45:34Z")

</div>

Just a note, you can do that too, but that's for cases where you have  
disks of different sizes or free space, the data files are not  
distributed equally over the mount points (and they are not guaranteeed  
to grow equally distributed)

Jörg

Am 18.05.13 08:58, schrieb Damien Hardy:

> As ES can handle a bunch of disks, no need to aggregate them as Raid0,  
> just give it a list of mount points (one for each disk), coma separated.
> 
> Be

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**Author:** ![Alexis\_Okuwa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/alexis_okuwa/32/1983_2.png) [@Alexis\_Okuwa](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Alexis_Okuwa)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 2:24pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/8 "2013-05-18T14:24:14Z")

</div>

@damien,  
which option in the config file is it to be able to just list a set of  
mount points, all the drives are the same size. assuming my index fits in  
memory is there any really reason to use ssd drives?

@jorg  
I was refeering to when you said "A node should be able to serve around  
100-1000 qps" that seems pretty small to me what are the factors that  
determin something like that.

On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 12:45 AM, Jörg Prante [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) wrote:

> Just a note, you can do that too, but that's for cases where you have  
> disks of different sizes or free space, the data files are not distributed  
> equally over the mount points (and they are not guaranteeed to grow equally  
> distributed)
> 
> Jörg
> 
> Am 18.05.13 08:58, schrieb Damien Hardy:
> 
> > As ES can handle a bunch of disks, no need to aggregate them as Raid0,  
> > just give it a list of mount points (one for each disk), coma separated.
> > 
> > Be
> 
> --  
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> .

--  
Enjoy,  
Alexis Okuwa  
WojonsTech  
424.835.1223

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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:47pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/9 "2013-05-18T17:47:11Z")

</div>

1000 qps means 1ms latency over the network which is quite usual for TCP  
stack and JVM. Another factor is query complexity, boolean operations,  
many terms, or queries with facets for example. Note you can add nodes  
and you can scale qps rate.

Jörg

Am 18.05.13 16:24, schrieb wojonstech:

> I was refeering to when you said "A node should be able to serve  
> around 100-1000 qps" that seems pretty small to me what are the  
> factors that determin something like that.

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**Author:** ![Alexis\_Okuwa](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/alexis_okuwa/32/1983_2.png) [@Alexis\_Okuwa](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Alexis_Okuwa)\
**Post date:** [May 18, 2013, 5:59pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/10 "2013-05-18T17:59:04Z")

</div>

Okay I guess that makes sense I know other databases can do a lot of  
queries per second but I guess your speaking about 1000 qps per core.  
On May 18, 2013 10:47 AM, "Jörg Prante" [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) wrote:

> 1000 qps means 1ms latency over the network which is quite usual for TCP  
> stack and JVM. Another factor is query complexity, boolean operations, many  
> terms, or queries with facets for example. Note you can add nodes and you  
> can scale qps rate.
> 
> Jörg
> 
> Am 18.05.13 16:24, schrieb wojonstech:
> 
> > I was refeering to when you said "A node should be able to serve around  
> > 100-1000 qps" that seems pretty small to me what are the factors that  
> > determin something like that.
> 
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**Author:** ![drewr](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/drewr/32/7803_2.png) [@drewr](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/drewr)\
**Post date:** [May 20, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/11 "2013-05-20T03:09:43Z")

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Jörg Prante wrote:

> Just a note, you can do that too, but that's for cases where you  
> have disks of different sizes or free space, the data files are  
> not distributed equally over the mount points (and they are not  
> guaranteeed to grow equally distributed)

The distribution is not guaranteed to be equal, but the ones with  
more free space are weighted more heavily.

-Drew

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/original/3X/1/a/1ac57faf039f6b580b3f104ef42a2a89e41014de.png) [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 2:35am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/best-pratices-for-ops-guys/11997/12 "2017-07-06T02:35:47Z")

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