# Creating a browse interface from ES

**URL:** <https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033>\
**Category:** Elasticsearch\
**Created:** [June 11, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033 "2014-06-11T04:42:11Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Robin\_Sheat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Robin\_Sheat](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Robin_Sheat)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 4:42am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/1 "2014-06-11T04:42:11Z")

</div>

I am building a system that uses Elasticsearch to store and retrieve  
library catalogue data. One thing I've been asked for is a browse interface.

Here's a definition of what this is:

- The user does a search, for example "Author starts with" and they  
supply "Smith"
- The system puts them into the middle of a list of authors, at or near  
the position of the first one that starts with "Smith", so they might see:
  - Smart, Murray
  - Smart, Murray J.
  - Smeaton, Duncan
  - Smieliauskas, Wally
  - Smillie, John
  - Smith Milway, Katie
  - Smith, A. M. C.
  - Smith, Andrew
  - Smith, Andrew M. C.
  - etc.

- These will be paged, so having ~20 or so results per page. If the user  
pages back, they head towards the start of the alphabet, if they page  
forwards they will go onward.
- Each result shown will have a count beside it showing how many results  
(i.e. catalogue items) are associated with that author.
- Clicking on a result takes you to everything by that author (this and  
everything beyond it is fairly easy and mostly implemented already.)

I'm wondering if anyone has any good ideas on how to approach this. At this  
stage, I don't care too much about handling searches that aren't "field  
starts with" searches, as exactly how that will be done is currently up in  
the air and I'll deal with it when the time comes.

Here's what I'm thinking, but there are issues with it:

- All the fields that are going to be browsed are faceted
- I get a list of all the facets for that field, search through it to  
find the starting point, and handle the paging manually in code.
  - This has the big problem that I might be fetching hundreds of  
thousands of terms and processing them, which won't be quick.

I'm open to any options here, whether I can somehow jump into the middle of  
a large set of facets like the query "from" field, or if I should instead  
put everything into another index specifically for this purpose (though I  
don't know how I'd structure and query it), or something else.

From what I can see, my ideal solution would be that I can specify the  
facet field, tell ES that I want to start at the one that starts with  
"Smith", and it displays from around there, then I have the ability to say  
"go 20 back", but I'm not sure that this is possible.

You can see an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about in action  
here: [http://hollisclassic.harvard.edu/](http://hollisclassic.harvard.edu/) - put in Smith as "Author (last  
name first)", and it gives you a (terribly ugly looking) browse list.

Any thoughts?

Thanks, Robin.

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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2014, 8:11am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/2 "2014-06-11T08:11:34Z")

</div>

Welcome to the show 🙂

I also build library catalog on Elasticsearch professionally.

Some time ago I wrote a Perl Dancer starter app just to show how very basic  
features like a hit list and facets are look like.

> **[GitHub - jprante/Elasticsearch-Dancer-App: a simple...](https://github.com/jprante/Elasticsearch-Dancer-App)**
>
> a simple Elasticsearch/Dancer/Bootstrap application for demonstration - GitHub - jprante/Elasticsearch-Dancer-App: a simple Elasticsearch/Dancer/Bootstrap application for demonstration

The browsing UI you mean is a traditional instrument librarians are used to  
when they want machines to sort and not to search. Here, it is called  
"register search" but in fact it is a sorted list. Beside being a  
traditional approach which is not the most modern form of search, I made  
the experience that librarians do not understand the difference between  
search and sort - they learned in school they must page manually through  
all results, and all relevance ranking comes form the devil himself.

Nevertheless, you can build sorted lists in ES but with a small trick - an  
extra index.

The author list can be implemented with ES "sort" in the search action,  
using "from" and "to" to page through results. You have to index the author  
names in an author name index (or better, an authoritative name index).  
There, you should index two forms of the author field, one for search  
(tokenized) and another unique form to sort on with the keyword analyzer so  
it's unchanged. You have to take care to use the "preferred author name" of  
the "main entry" for sort, which is determined by library catalog rules and  
not necessarily the form how the author name is written. Variant names of  
an author should be kept aside, just for search. So you should index all  
author names into one authority index for this purpose, where each author  
is represented by a single document. This should be easy since librarians  
are used to mark all author names by a unique key (at least they carry the  
biographical dates with them)

Beside author names, you'd have to deal with corporate names, conference  
names, and subject names.

I do not fully understand how you intend to process facet results. This  
seems a bit overengineered. ES can not page through facet (aggregation)  
results efficiently, as you already noted, this would have to be a task for  
the client application to work on, and for millions of entries, it would be  
very sluggish experience, and the required heap resources would be far from  
reasonable.

The "field starts with" is also easy to implement, look at the  
"match\_phrase\_prefix" query, here is a blog post by Zachary Tong

> **[Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale](https://www.elastic.co)**
>
> Power insights and outcomes with the Elasticsearch Platform and AI. See into your data and find answers that matter with enterprise solutions designed to help you build, observe, and protect. Try Elasticsearch free today.

Jörg

On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 6:42 AM, Robin Sheat [robin@catalyst.net.nz](mailto:robin@catalyst.net.nz) wrote:

> I am building a system that uses Elasticsearch to store and retrieve  
> library catalogue data. One thing I've been asked for is a browse interface.
> 
> Here's a definition of what this is:
> 
> - The user does a search, for example "Author starts with" and they  
> supply "Smith"
> - The system puts them into the middle of a list of authors, at or  
> near the position of the first one that starts with "Smith", so they might  
> see:
> - Smart, Murray
> - Smart, Murray J.
> - Smeaton, Duncan
> - Smieliauskas, Wally
> - Smillie, John
> - Smith Milway, Katie
> - Smith, A. M. C.
> - Smith, Andrew
> - Smith, Andrew M. C.
> - etc.
> 
> - These will be paged, so having ~20 or so results per page. If the  
> user pages back, they head towards the start of the alphabet, if they page  
> forwards they will go onward.
> - Each result shown will have a count beside it showing how many  
> results (i.e. catalogue items) are associated with that author.
> - Clicking on a result takes you to everything by that author (this  
> and everything beyond it is fairly easy and mostly implemented already.)
> 
> I'm wondering if anyone has any good ideas on how to approach this. At  
> this stage, I don't care too much about handling searches that aren't  
> "field starts with" searches, as exactly how that will be done is currently  
> up in the air and I'll deal with it when the time comes.
> 
> Here's what I'm thinking, but there are issues with it:
> 
> - All the fields that are going to be browsed are faceted
> - I get a list of all the facets for that field, search through it to  
> find the starting point, and handle the paging manually in code.
> - This has the big problem that I might be fetching hundreds of  
> thousands of terms and processing them, which won't be quick.
> 
> I'm open to any options here, whether I can somehow jump into the middle  
> of a large set of facets like the query "from" field, or if I should  
> instead put everything into another index specifically for this purpose  
> (though I don't know how I'd structure and query it), or something else.
> 
> From what I can see, my ideal solution would be that I can specify the  
> facet field, tell ES that I want to start at the one that starts with  
> "Smith", and it displays from around there, then I have the ability to say  
> "go 20 back", but I'm not sure that this is possible.
> 
> You can see an example of the sort of thing I'm talking about in action  
> here: [http://hollisclassic.harvard.edu/](http://hollisclassic.harvard.edu/) - put in Smith as "Author (last  
> name first)", and it gives you a (terribly ugly looking) browse list.
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Thanks, Robin.
> 
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**Author:** ![Robin\_Sheat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Robin\_Sheat](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Robin_Sheat)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 3:01am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/3 "2014-06-16T03:01:03Z")

</div>

Op woensdag 11 juni 2014 20:11:39 UTC+12 schreef Jörg Prante:

> The browsing UI you mean is a traditional instrument librarians are used  
> to when they want machines to sort and not to search. Here, it is called  
> "register search" but in fact it is a sorted list. Beside being a  
> traditional approach which is not the most modern form of search, I made  
> the experience that librarians do not understand the difference between  
> search and sort - they learned in school they must page manually through  
> all results, and all relevance ranking comes form the devil himself.

That sounds like it. I know that it's a thing very few people would want,  
however the people who are giving us money to do this would like it, so  
that makes it into an important thing 🙂 I have the search aspects mostly  
built already, but need this browse support.

> Nevertheless, you can build sorted lists in ES but with a small trick - an  
> extra index.
> 
> The author list can be implemented with ES "sort" in the search action,  
> using "from" and "to" to page through results. You have to index the author  
> names in an author name index (or better, an authoritative name index).  
> There, you should index two forms of the author field, one for search  
> (tokenized) and another unique form to sort on with the keyword analyzer so  
> it's unchanged. You have to take care to use the "preferred author name" of  
> the "main entry" for sort, which is determined by library catalog rules and  
> not necessarily the

That's close, but a bit different from what I want. If I have an 'author'  
index, and I search for things starting with 'Smith', sorting A-\>Z, I want  
to be able to page back, and get the results that are closer to the start  
of the alphabet. That is to say, it should tell me the "Smith" is the 524th  
(e.g.) author entry across the whole index when sorted, then I can set up  
my results page so the user can page backwards. Or, if I could do a  
startswith search, and have a negative "from" so it looks backwards in the  
results...

But that still won't work, as startswith doesn't give me a place in the  
index, it gives me a subset of the index restricted by the query.

Essentially, I think that this would give me an authority searcher, when I  
want an authority browser. I _could_ browse through it starting at 'A', but  
I really need to be able to jump to a point in the middle and go  
backwards/forwards from there.

> form how the author name is written. Variant names of an author should be  
> kept aside, just for search. So you should index all author names into one  
> authority index for this purpose, where each author is represented by a  
> single document. This should be easy since librarians are used to mark all  
> author names by a unique key (at least they carry the biographical dates  
> with them)

Beside author names, you'd have to deal with corporate names, conference

> names, and subject names.

Those are implementation details that I'll work out when I have something  
working. Believe me, I've spent a lot of time working with MARC data, I  
understand all the weird ways that it does things 🙂

> I do not fully understand how you intend to process facet results. This  
> seems a bit overengineered. ES can not page through facet (aggregation)  
> results efficiently, as you already noted, this would have to be a task for  
> the client application to work on, and for millions of entries, it would be  
> very sluggish experience, and the required heap resources would be far from  
> reasonable.

Well, it's the only way I could think of that would function at all. But  
it's far from an ideal solution, in that it's going to work at all.

> The "field starts with" is also easy to implement, look at the  
> "match\_phrase\_prefix" query, here is a blog post by Zachary Tong
> 
> [Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale | Elastic](http://www.elasticsearch.org/blog/starts-with-phrase-matching/)

Yeah, I have that working already, but it's not quite what I want.

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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2014, 11:12am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/4 "2014-06-16T11:12:30Z")

</div>

What about this:

- build author name index

- page size is static (e.g. 20)

- absolute position: you must index each author name with absolute position  
info (sort author names before indexing, use a counter and increment it  
while indexing)

- sort asc/desc works on author's name keyword analyzed field

- jump function: execute constant\_score query, with an optional filterered  
query of prefix query on author name keyword analyzed field (search for 'A'  
jumps to author names with 'A', search for 'B' jumps to 'B' etc.)

- search function is trivial

- relative move: paging back and forth through the result is done by using  
the absolute position info from the hits and the 'from' / 'size' ES  
parameters, ignoring the filtered query (since this is used just for  
jumping)

This is how I implement "register search"

Jörg

On Mon, Jun 16, 2014 at 5:01 AM, Robin Sheat [robin@catalyst.net.nz](mailto:robin@catalyst.net.nz) wrote:

> That's close, but a bit different from what I want. If I have an 'author'  
> index, and I search for things starting with 'Smith', sorting A-\>Z, I want  
> to be able to page back, and get the results that are closer to the start  
> of the alphabet. That is to say, it should tell me the "Smith" is the 524th  
> (e.g.) author entry across the whole index when sorted, then I can set up  
> my results page so the user can page backwards. Or, if I could do a  
> startswith search, and have a negative "from" so it looks backwards in the  
> results...
> 
> But that still won't work, as startswith doesn't give me a place in the  
> index, it gives me a subset of the index restricted by the query.
> 
> Essentially, I think that this would give me an authority searcher, when I  
> want an authority browser. I _could_ browse through it starting at 'A', but  
> I really need to be able to jump to a point in the middle and go  
> backwards/forwards from there.

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**Author:** ![Robin\_Sheat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Robin\_Sheat](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Robin_Sheat)\
**Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 5:28am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/5 "2014-06-17T05:28:56Z")

</div>

[joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) schreef op ma 16-06-2014 om 13:12 [+0200]:

> This is how I implement "register search"

This is interesting. It could work for me.

Though, I'm not sure I totally understand it. To find, say "Smith", I'd  
search for it, get its index, and then use the from/size stuff to bring  
up the list in that area. Is that essentially what you're using?

If so, that seems like what I need. The only issue is that it'll require  
a total reindex every time something is added. But, I don't see a way  
around that even with some other ideas I'm exploring.

--  
Robin Sheat  
Catalyst IT Ltd.  
✆ +64 4 803 2204  
GPG: 5FA7 4B49 1E4D CAA4 4C38 8505 77F5 B724 F871 3BDF

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**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\
**Post date:** [June 17, 2014, 7:28am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/6 "2014-06-17T07:28:12Z")

</div>

If you can use the sort key of the term (internal java collation key or ICU  
collation key) instead of absolute position number, there is no longer the  
need to reindex. One advantage is that you can adjust the sort key to the  
requirements (in Germany we have complex sort requirements that are not  
compatible with Unicode canonical sort order).

One left challenge is creating the frequency count per term. In "register  
search" each term in the result list should be paired with an occurence  
count (or even a prefix count). This can be achieved by iterating over the  
result page (e.g. 20 entries) and executing a count query over the term (or  
use a prefix query for the count)

> **[Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale](https://www.elastic.co)**
>
> Power insights and outcomes with the Elasticsearch Platform and AI. See into your data and find answers that matter with enterprise solutions designed to help you build, observe, and protect. Try Elasticsearch free today.

is very fast since no docs are returned.

Sure, there are facets/aggregations but they have a slight disadvantage:  
they do not return exact counts, only an estimated count. For "register  
search" you need absolutely exact counts.

Jörg

On Tue, Jun 17, 2014 at 7:28 AM, Robin Sheat [robin@catalyst.net.nz](mailto:robin@catalyst.net.nz) wrote:

> [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) schreef op ma 16-06-2014 om 13:12 [+0200]:
> 
> > This is how I implement "register search"
> 
> This is interesting. It could work for me.
> 
> Though, I'm not sure I totally understand it. To find, say "Smith", I'd  
> search for it, get its index, and then use the from/size stuff to bring  
> up the list in that area. Is that essentially what you're using?
> 
> If so, that seems like what I need. The only issue is that it'll require  
> a total reindex every time something is added. But, I don't see a way  
> around that even with some other ideas I'm exploring.
> 
> --  
> Robin Sheat  
> Catalyst IT Ltd.  
> ✆ +64 4 803 2204  
> GPG: 5FA7 4B49 1E4D CAA4 4C38 8505 77F5 B724 F871 3BDF
> 
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**Author:** ![Robin\_Sheat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Robin\_Sheat](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Robin_Sheat)\
**Post date:** [June 26, 2014, 4:11am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/7 "2014-06-26T04:11:10Z")

</div>

Op dinsdag 17 juni 2014 19:28:18 UTC+12 schreef Jörg Prante:

> If you can use the sort key of the term (internal java collation key or  
> ICU collation key) instead of absolute position number, there is no longer  
> the need to reindex. One advantage is that you can adjust the sort key to  
> the requirements (in Germany we have complex sort requirements that are not  
> compatible with Unicode canonical sort order).

That has the potential to be useful

The one thing I'm a bit stuck on is that if the user searches for "Smith",  
and I don't have a numerical order (i.e. a precomputed index based on the  
sorted data), then how can I tell ES to give me the records that preceed  
and succeed "Smith" (such as the "Smillie" example shown above.)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/original/3X/1/a/1ac57faf039f6b580b3f104ef42a2a89e41014de.png) [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 1:19am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/creating-a-browse-interface-from-es/18033/8 "2017-07-06T01:19:37Z")

</div>