# Distributors vs raid0 **URL:** \ **Category:** Elasticsearch\ **Created:** [January 22, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789 "2015-01-22T23:21:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Shaun\_Senecal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Shaun\_Senecal](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Shaun_Senecal)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:21pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/1 "2015-01-22T23:21:35Z")
What is the advantage of using ElasticSearch's distributors (JBOD) over using raid0? As far as I can tell, if I lose a drive in either case I lose the whole node until the data can be recovered. Is the distributor smart about which files it recovers and only recovers the files that were on the failed drive? Is there some other advantage I am missing? Shaun -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![warkolm](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/warkolm/32/39224_2.png) [@warkolm](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/warkolm)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/2 "2015-01-22T23:38:14Z")
You will lose all data if one drive dies and you use ES striping or RAID0. I don't know if there is a practical (throughput) difference, but logically they are the same. On 23 January 2015 at 10:21, Shaun Senecal [senecaso@gmail.com](mailto:senecaso@gmail.com) wrote: > What is the advantage of using Elasticsearch's distributors (JBOD) over > using raid0? > > As far as I can tell, if I lose a drive in either case I lose the whole > node until the data can be recovered. Is the distributor smart about which > files it recovers and only recovers the files that were on the failed > drive? Is there some other advantage I am missing? > > Shaun > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elasticsearch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > To view this discussion on the web visit > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com) > . > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 10:53am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/3 "2015-01-23T10:53:46Z")
There are no advantages for JBOD over RAID0. RAID0 is far superior when using striped reads/writes, that is, you can add up the read/write performance of all the physical drives when using a hardware RAID controller. JBOD is limited to single physical drive performance . There is only one rare case, if you want to mix physical drives with different volume capacity, where RAID0 striping can not be applied. Then JBOD adds up all the volumes of the drives where striped RAID0 uses the smallest drive capacity only. And you are correct, in either case losing a drive means failure of a machine. ES solves node failures by replica shards on other machines, not by a file-based repairing strategy. Jörg On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Mark Walkom [markwalkom@gmail.com](mailto:markwalkom@gmail.com) wrote: > You will lose all data if one drive dies and you use ES striping or RAID0. > > I don't know if there is a practical (throughput) difference, but > logically they are the same. > > On 23 January 2015 at 10:21, Shaun Senecal [senecaso@gmail.com](mailto:senecaso@gmail.com) wrote: > > > What is the advantage of using Elasticsearch's distributors (JBOD) over > > using raid0? > > > > As far as I can tell, if I lose a drive in either case I lose the whole > > node until the data can be recovered. Is the distributor smart about which > > files it recovers and only recovers the files that were on the failed > > drive? Is there some other advantage I am missing? > > > > Shaun > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "elasticsearch" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com) > > . > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "elasticsearch" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > To view this discussion on the web visit > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com) > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer) > . > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAKdsXoG3tvLNqQ-iO%2B3Wdvexb34BoXB2wHoR1dcDhDB4R9x%3DHw%40mail.gmail.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAKdsXoG3tvLNqQ-iO%2B3Wdvexb34BoXB2wHoR1dcDhDB4R9x%3DHw%40mail.gmail.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![Shaun\_Senecal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Shaun\_Senecal](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Shaun_Senecal)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 3:56pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/4 "2015-01-23T15:56:18Z")
Thanks for the confirmations Jörg, Mark It seems like a lot of development effort to implement this feature for little to no gain over RAID-0, so I wonder if the folks at Elasticsearch have bigger plans for it in the future. Perhaps file based recovery and/or a distributor that keeps all files for a given shard together on the same drive so that a failed drive results in the loss of only a few shards rather than an entire node. For now though, it seems RAID is the way to go. Shaun On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 2:53:53 AM UTC-8, Jörg Prante wrote: > There are no advantages for JBOD over RAID0. RAID0 is far superior when > using striped reads/writes, that is, you can add up the read/write > performance of all the physical drives when using a hardware RAID > controller. JBOD is limited to single physical drive performance . > > There is only one rare case, if you want to mix physical drives with > different volume capacity, where RAID0 striping can not be applied. Then > JBOD adds up all the volumes of the drives where striped RAID0 uses the > smallest drive capacity only. > > And you are correct, in either case losing a drive means failure of a > machine. ES solves node failures by replica shards on other machines, not > by a file-based repairing strategy. > > Jörg > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Mark Walkom \<[markw...@gmail.com](mailto:markw...@gmail.com) > \\> wrote: > > > You will lose all data if one drive dies and you use ES striping or RAID0. > > > > I don't know if there is a practical (throughput) difference, but > > logically they are the same. > > > > On 23 January 2015 at 10:21, Shaun Senecal \<[sene...@gmail.com](mailto:sene...@gmail.com) > > \\> wrote: > > > > > What is the advantage of using Elasticsearch's distributors (JBOD) over > > > using raid0? > > > > > > As far as I can tell, if I lose a drive in either case I lose the whole > > > node until the data can be recovered. Is the distributor smart about which > > > files it recovers and only recovers the files that were on the failed > > > drive? Is there some other advantage I am missing? > > > > > > Shaun > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "elasticsearch" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > an email to [elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com) \. > > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449%40googlegroups.com) > > > . > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "elasticsearch" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com) \. > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com) > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer) > > . > > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/b17c012e-15f4-4b64-bfbb-fcfcdda25fe1%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/b17c012e-15f4-4b64-bfbb-fcfcdda25fe1%40googlegroups.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![jprante](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/jprante/32/44941_2.png) [@jprante](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/jprante)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/5 "2015-01-23T18:00:58Z")
Now that I re-read > **[Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale](https://www.elastic.co)** > > Power insights and outcomes with the Elasticsearch Platform and AI. See into your data and find answers that matter with enterprise solutions designed to help you build, observe, and protect. Try Elasticsearch free today. I see the possible misconception. "RAID0" in the text should give the picture that an ES data directory should be seen as a logical drive which contains many files spread over physical drives. RAID0 in striping mode on hardware controllers works differently from this: each word of block data is split into bits that are read/written simultaneously to different physical drives, where the filesystem or free space considerations has nothing to do with RAID. The ES store distributor was implemented to handle the situation where data dirs on a node may have different free storage capacity. With the setting "least\_used" (which s the default, it really means "most\_free"), ES selects the mount point for new files that has the most free space first, so the data paths are filled optimally by using all available space. I don't think the distributor is of any value for future index recovery strategies, it is too low level. Recovery will become more intelligent with the advent of numbered sequences in Lucene segments, which allows incremental recovery and replication of shards. Jörg On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Shaun Senecal [senecaso@gmail.com](mailto:senecaso@gmail.com) wrote: > Thanks for the confirmations Jörg, Mark > > It seems like a lot of development effort to implement this feature for > little to no gain over RAID-0, so I wonder if the folks at Elasticsearch > have bigger plans for it in the future. Perhaps file based recovery and/or > a distributor that keeps all files for a given shard together on the same > drive so that a failed drive results in the loss of only a few shards > rather than an entire node. For now though, it seems RAID is the way to go. > > Shaun > > On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 2:53:53 AM UTC-8, Jörg Prante wrote: > > > There are no advantages for JBOD over RAID0. RAID0 is far superior when > > using striped reads/writes, that is, you can add up the read/write > > performance of all the physical drives when using a hardware RAID > > controller. JBOD is limited to single physical drive performance . > > > > There is only one rare case, if you want to mix physical drives with > > different volume capacity, where RAID0 striping can not be applied. Then > > JBOD adds up all the volumes of the drives where striped RAID0 uses the > > smallest drive capacity only. > > > > And you are correct, in either case losing a drive means failure of a > > machine. ES solves node failures by replica shards on other machines, not > > by a file-based repairing strategy. > > > > Jörg > > > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Mark Walkom [markw...@gmail.com](mailto:markw...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > You will lose all data if one drive dies and you use ES striping or > > > RAID0. > > > > > > I don't know if there is a practical (throughput) difference, but > > > logically they are the same. > > > > > > On 23 January 2015 at 10:21, Shaun Senecal [sene...@gmail.com](mailto:sene...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > What is the advantage of using Elasticsearch's distributors (JBOD) over > > > > using raid0? > > > > > > > > As far as I can tell, if I lose a drive in either case I lose the whole > > > > node until the data can be recovered. Is the distributor smart about which > > > > files it recovers and only recovers the files that were on the failed > > > > drive? Is there some other advantage I am missing? > > > > > > > > Shaun > > > > > > > > -- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "elasticsearch" group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > > an email to [elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com). > > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/](https://groups.google.com/d/) > > > > msgid/elasticsearch/4d9091bb-a472-466d-9e68-83fad57c5449% > > > > [40googlegroups.com](http://40googlegroups.com). > > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > > > -- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > Groups "elasticsearch" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > an email to [elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearc...@googlegroups.com). > > > To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/](https://groups.google.com/d/) > > > msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_ > > > kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%[40mail.gmail.com](http://40mail.gmail.com) > > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt\_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAEYi1X807P06tm%2Bb7Umt_kFRfV5xNjxbtLghL3VAprG0w9SZnA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer) > > > . > > > > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). > > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "elasticsearch" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). > > To view this discussion on the web visit > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/b17c012e-15f4-4b64-bfbb-fcfcdda25fe1%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/b17c012e-15f4-4b64-bfbb-fcfcdda25fe1%40googlegroups.com) > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/b17c012e-15f4-4b64-bfbb-fcfcdda25fe1%40googlegroups.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/b17c012e-15f4-4b64-bfbb-fcfcdda25fe1%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer) > > . > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "elasticsearch" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com). To view this discussion on the web visit [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAKdsXoHQDVn69-DXKTEZ95v%2B\_wbR1g-VRrhtDUPyebesxRLMsA%40mail.gmail.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAKdsXoHQDVn69-DXKTEZ95v%2B_wbR1g-VRrhtDUPyebesxRLMsA%40mail.gmail.com). For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout). ---
**Author:** ![warkolm](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/user_avatar/discuss.elastic.co/warkolm/32/39224_2.png) [@warkolm](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/warkolm)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2015, 10:27pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/6 "2015-01-23T22:27:31Z")
There are plans to stripe data at a complete segment level, so that if a disk/mount dies then only the segments on that are lost. I'm not sure if there is an ETA on that. On 24 January 2015 at 05:00, [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) [joergprante@gmail.com](mailto:joergprante@gmail.com) wrote: > Now that I re-read > > [Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale | Elastic](http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/setup-dir-layout.html) > > I see the possible misconception. "RAID0" in the text should give the > picture that an ES data directory should be seen as a logical drive which > contains many files spread over physical drives. RAID0 in striping mode on > hardware controllers works differently from this: each word of block data > is split into bits that are read/written simultaneously to different > physical drives, where the filesystem or free space considerations has > nothing to do with RAID. > > The ES store distributor was implemented to handle the situation where > data dirs on a node may have different free storage capacity. With the > setting "least\_used" (which s the default, it really means "most\_free"), ES > selects the mount point for new files that has the most free space first, > so the data paths are filled optimally by using all available space. > > I don't think the distributor is of any value for future index recovery > strategies, it is too low level. Recovery will become more intelligent with > the advent of numbered sequences in Lucene segments, which allows > incremental recovery and replication of shards. > > Jörg > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 4:56 PM, Shaun Senecal [senecaso@gmail.com](mailto:senecaso@gmail.com) wrote: > > > Thanks for the confirmations Jörg, Mark > > > > It seems like a lot of development effort to implement this feature for > > little to no gain over RAID-0, so I wonder if the folks at Elasticsearch > > have bigger plans for it in the future. Perhaps file based recovery and/or > > a distributor that keeps all files for a given shard together on the same > > drive so that a failed drive results in the loss of only a few shards > > rather than an entire node. For now though, it seems RAID is the way to go. > > > > Shaun > > > > On Friday, January 23, 2015 at 2:53:53 AM UTC-8, Jörg Prante wrote: > > > > > There are no advantages for JBOD over RAID0. RAID0 is far superior when > > > using striped reads/writes, that is, you can add up the read/write > > > performance of all the physical drives when using a hardware RAID > > > controller. JBOD is limited to single physical drive performance . > > > > > > There is only one rare case, if you want to mix physical drives with > > > different volume capacity, where RAID0 striping can not be applied. Then > > > JBOD adds up all the volumes of the drives where striped RAID0 uses the > > > smallest drive capacity only. > > > > > > And you are correct, in either case losing a drive means failure of a > > > machine. ES solves node failures by replica shards on other machines, not > > > by a file-based repairing strategy. > > > > > > Jörg > > > > > > On Fri, Jan 23, 2015 at 12:38 AM, Mark Walkom [markw...@gmail.com](mailto:markw...@gmail.com) > > > wrote: > > > > > > > You will lose all data if one drive dies and you use ES striping or > > > > RAID0. > > > > > > > > I don't know if there is a practical (throughput) difference, but > > > > logically they are the same. > > > > > > > > On 23 January 2015 at 10:21, Shaun Senecal [sene...@gmail.com](mailto:sene...@gmail.com) wrote: > > > > > > > > > What is the advantage of using Elasticsearch's distributors (JBOD) > > > > > over using raid0? > > > > > > > > > > As far as I can tell, if I lose a drive in either case I lose the > > > > > whole node until the data can be recovered. Is the distributor smart about > > > > > which files it recovers and only recovers the files that were on the failed > > > > > drive? 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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/original/3X/1/a/1ac57faf039f6b580b3f104ef42a2a89e41014de.png) [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 12:36am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/distributors-vs-raid0/21789/7 "2017-07-06T00:36:54Z")