# Elasticsearch/Lucene Delete space reuse? recovery?

**URL:** <https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890>\
**Category:** Elasticsearch\
**Created:** [June 3, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890 "2014-06-03T15:54:54Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![smonasco\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@smonasco\_2](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/smonasco_2)\
**Post date:** [June 3, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890/1 "2014-06-03T15:54:54Z")

</div>

I'm starting a project to index log files. I don't particularly want to  
wait until the log files roll over. There will be files from 100's of apps  
running across 100's of machines (not all apps intersect with all machines,  
but you get the drift). Some roll over very fast; some may take days.

The problem comes that if I am constantly reindexing the same document  
(same id) am I loosing all old space (store and or index) or is  
Elasticsearch/Lucene smart enough to say here's a new version we'll  
overwrite the old store/index entries and point to this one where they are  
the same and add new ones.

Certainly, there is a more sophisticated model that treats every line as a  
unique document/row such that this doesn't become an issue, but I'm not  
ready to spend that kind of dev and hardware at this issue. (Our  
elasticsearch solution is wrapped in a system that becomes really heavy  
handed when indexing such small pieces.)

--Shannon Monasco

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Ivan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/df788c/32.png) [@Ivan](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/Ivan)\
**Post date:** [June 4, 2014, 10:58pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890/2 "2014-06-04T22:58:02Z")

</div>

Lucene will hold onto deleted documents until a merged is performed. An  
update in Lucene is basically an atomic delete/insert.

An optimize will help reclaim the space used by deleted documents. Did you  
change your merge settings? Deleted documents should eventually be removed  
whenever new segments are created.

Cheers,

Ivan

On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 8:54 AM, smonasco [smonasco@gmail.com](mailto:smonasco@gmail.com) wrote:

> I'm starting a project to index log files. I don't particularly want to  
> wait until the log files roll over. There will be files from 100's of apps  
> running across 100's of machines (not all apps intersect with all machines,  
> but you get the drift). Some roll over very fast; some may take days.
> 
> The problem comes that if I am constantly reindexing the same document  
> (same id) am I loosing all old space (store and or index) or is  
> Elasticsearch/Lucene smart enough to say here's a new version we'll  
> overwrite the old store/index entries and point to this one where they are  
> the same and add new ones.
> 
> Certainly, there is a more sophisticated model that treats every line as a  
> unique document/row such that this doesn't become an issue, but I'm not  
> ready to spend that kind of dev and hardware at this issue. (Our  
> elasticsearch solution is wrapped in a system that becomes really heavy  
> handed when indexing such small pieces.)
> 
> --Shannon Monasco
> 
> --  
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups  
> "elasticsearch" group.  
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an  
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> To view this discussion on the web visit  
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> [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> .  
> For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).

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**Author:** ![smonasco\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@smonasco\_2](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/smonasco_2)\
**Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:12pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890/3 "2014-06-05T13:12:29Z")

</div>

I haven't changed my merge settings. How often should segments be created  
and how often should merges happen naturally?  
On Jun 4, 2014 4:58 PM, "Ivan Brusic" [ivan@brusic.com](mailto:ivan@brusic.com) wrote:

> Lucene will hold onto deleted documents until a merged is performed. An  
> update in Lucene is basically an atomic delete/insert.
> 
> An optimize will help reclaim the space used by deleted documents. Did you  
> change your merge settings? Deleted documents should eventually be removed  
> whenever new segments are created.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Ivan
> 
> On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 8:54 AM, smonasco [smonasco@gmail.com](mailto:smonasco@gmail.com) wrote:
> 
> > I'm starting a project to index log files. I don't particularly want to  
> > wait until the log files roll over. There will be files from 100's of apps  
> > running across 100's of machines (not all apps intersect with all machines,  
> > but you get the drift). Some roll over very fast; some may take days.
> > 
> > The problem comes that if I am constantly reindexing the same document  
> > (same id) am I loosing all old space (store and or index) or is  
> > Elasticsearch/Lucene smart enough to say here's a new version we'll  
> > overwrite the old store/index entries and point to this one where they are  
> > the same and add new ones.
> > 
> > Certainly, there is a more sophisticated model that treats every line as  
> > a unique document/row such that this doesn't become an issue, but I'm not  
> > ready to spend that kind of dev and hardware at this issue. (Our  
> > elasticsearch solution is wrapped in a system that becomes really heavy  
> > handed when indexing such small pieces.)
> > 
> > --Shannon Monasco
> > 
> > --  
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups  
> > "elasticsearch" group.  
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an  
> > email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com).  
> > To view this discussion on the web visit  
> > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com)  
> > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> > .  
> > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).
> 
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> .  
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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![mikemccand](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@mikemccand](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/mikemccand)\
**Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:16pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890/4 "2014-06-05T13:16:49Z")

</div>

The default merge policy in Lucene (TieredMergePolicy) has a bias towards  
segments with more deletes, so it is "trying" to merge those ones away.  
You can increase this bias by setting index.reclaim\_deletes\_weight (see

> **[Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale](https://www.elastic.co)**
>
> Power insights and outcomes with the Elasticsearch Platform and AI. See into your data and find answers that matter with enterprise solutions designed to help you build, observe, and protect. Try Elasticsearch free today.

) but be careful not to make it so high that awful merges are being  
selected.

If you want to see the gory details, as of Elasticsearch 1.2 you can turn  
on lucene.iw: TRACE in config/logging.yml to see when merges run, which  
segments, how many deletes those segments had, etc.

Mike

[http://blog.mikemccandless.com](http://blog.mikemccandless.com)

On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Shannon Monasco [smonasco@gmail.com](mailto:smonasco@gmail.com) wrote:

> I haven't changed my merge settings. How often should segments be created  
> and how often should merges happen naturally?  
> On Jun 4, 2014 4:58 PM, "Ivan Brusic" [ivan@brusic.com](mailto:ivan@brusic.com) wrote:
> 
> > Lucene will hold onto deleted documents until a merged is performed. An  
> > update in Lucene is basically an atomic delete/insert.
> > 
> > An optimize will help reclaim the space used by deleted documents. Did  
> > you change your merge settings? Deleted documents should eventually be  
> > removed whenever new segments are created.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > 
> > Ivan
> > 
> > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 8:54 AM, smonasco [smonasco@gmail.com](mailto:smonasco@gmail.com) wrote:
> > 
> > > I'm starting a project to index log files. I don't particularly want to  
> > > wait until the log files roll over. There will be files from 100's of apps  
> > > running across 100's of machines (not all apps intersect with all machines,  
> > > but you get the drift). Some roll over very fast; some may take days.
> > > 
> > > The problem comes that if I am constantly reindexing the same document  
> > > (same id) am I loosing all old space (store and or index) or is  
> > > Elasticsearch/Lucene smart enough to say here's a new version we'll  
> > > overwrite the old store/index entries and point to this one where they are  
> > > the same and add new ones.
> > > 
> > > Certainly, there is a more sophisticated model that treats every line as  
> > > a unique document/row such that this doesn't become an issue, but I'm not  
> > > ready to spend that kind of dev and hardware at this issue. (Our  
> > > elasticsearch solution is wrapped in a system that becomes really heavy  
> > > handed when indexing such small pieces.)
> > > 
> > > --Shannon Monasco
> > > 
> > > --  
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> > > Groups "elasticsearch" group.  
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send  
> > > an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com).  
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit  
> > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com)  
> > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> > > .  
> > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).
> > 
> > --  
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the  
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> > 
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> > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CALY%3DcQDuQvdfN7oBBA%2BWX%2BOCKGu6SxiqFckhVqGXm5QbenXYqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CALY%3DcQDuQvdfN7oBBA%2BWX%2BOCKGu6SxiqFckhVqGXm5QbenXYqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> > .  
> > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).
> 
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> .
> 
> For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![smonasco\_2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@smonasco\_2](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/smonasco_2)\
**Post date:** [June 5, 2014, 1:22pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890/5 "2014-06-05T13:22:36Z")

</div>

Thanks guys!  
On Jun 5, 2014 7:17 AM, "Michael McCandless" \<  
[michael.mccandless@elasticsearch.com](mailto:michael.mccandless@elasticsearch.com)\> wrote:

> The default merge policy in Lucene (TieredMergePolicy) has a bias towards  
> segments with more deletes, so it is "trying" to merge those ones away.  
> You can increase this bias by setting index.reclaim\_deletes\_weight (see  
> [Elasticsearch Platform — Find real-time answers at scale | Elastic](http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/index-modules-merge.html)  
> ) but be careful not to make it so high that awful merges are being  
> selected.
> 
> If you want to see the gory details, as of Elasticsearch 1.2 you can turn  
> on lucene.iw: TRACE in config/logging.yml to see when merges run, which  
> segments, how many deletes those segments had, etc.
> 
> Mike
> 
> [http://blog.mikemccandless.com](http://blog.mikemccandless.com)
> 
> On Thu, Jun 5, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Shannon Monasco [smonasco@gmail.com](mailto:smonasco@gmail.com)  
> wrote:
> 
> > I haven't changed my merge settings. How often should segments be  
> > created and how often should merges happen naturally?  
> > On Jun 4, 2014 4:58 PM, "Ivan Brusic" [ivan@brusic.com](mailto:ivan@brusic.com) wrote:
> > 
> > > Lucene will hold onto deleted documents until a merged is performed.  
> > > An update in Lucene is basically an atomic delete/insert.
> > > 
> > > An optimize will help reclaim the space used by deleted documents. Did  
> > > you change your merge settings? Deleted documents should eventually be  
> > > removed whenever new segments are created.
> > > 
> > > Cheers,
> > > 
> > > Ivan
> > > 
> > > On Tue, Jun 3, 2014 at 8:54 AM, smonasco [smonasco@gmail.com](mailto:smonasco@gmail.com) wrote:
> > > 
> > > > I'm starting a project to index log files. I don't particularly want  
> > > > to wait until the log files roll over. There will be files from 100's of  
> > > > apps running across 100's of machines (not all apps intersect with all  
> > > > machines, but you get the drift). Some roll over very fast; some may take  
> > > > days.
> > > > 
> > > > The problem comes that if I am constantly reindexing the same document  
> > > > (same id) am I loosing all old space (store and or index) or is  
> > > > Elasticsearch/Lucene smart enough to say here's a new version we'll  
> > > > overwrite the old store/index entries and point to this one where they are  
> > > > the same and add new ones.
> > > > 
> > > > Certainly, there is a more sophisticated model that treats every line  
> > > > as a unique document/row such that this doesn't become an issue, but I'm  
> > > > not ready to spend that kind of dev and hardware at this issue. (Our  
> > > > elasticsearch solution is wrapped in a system that becomes really heavy  
> > > > handed when indexing such small pieces.)
> > > > 
> > > > --Shannon Monasco
> > > > 
> > > > --  
> > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google  
> > > > Groups "elasticsearch" group.  
> > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send  
> > > > an email to [elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com](mailto:elasticsearch+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com).  
> > > > To view this discussion on the web visit  
> > > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com)  
> > > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/9d9d38f7-ba4f-470c-9864-5b9af8abc773%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> > > > .  
> > > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).
> > > 
> > > --  
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> > > 
> > > To view this discussion on the web visit  
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> > > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CALY%3DcQDuQvdfN7oBBA%2BWX%2BOCKGu6SxiqFckhVqGXm5QbenXYqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CALY%3DcQDuQvdfN7oBBA%2BWX%2BOCKGu6SxiqFckhVqGXm5QbenXYqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> > > .  
> > > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).
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> > [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAFDU5WJQzcK4YrZC%3DO5wJs8G0c5zCsGaXzc%3D19NWz4YHJbOy6w%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAFDU5WJQzcK4YrZC%3DO5wJs8G0c5zCsGaXzc%3D19NWz4YHJbOy6w%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
> > .
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> > For more options, visit [https://groups.google.com/d/optout](https://groups.google.com/d/optout).
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> [https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAD7smRdJGy4Fai%2BXOuw2m4r8k-Xts6riFMgGXcZvCLnCS\_w9kg%40mail.gmail.com?utm\_medium=email&utm\_source=footer](https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/elasticsearch/CAD7smRdJGy4Fai%2BXOuw2m4r8k-Xts6riFMgGXcZvCLnCS_w9kg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer)  
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---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/elastic/original/3X/1/a/1ac57faf039f6b580b3f104ef42a2a89e41014de.png) [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 1:24am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/elasticsearch-lucene-delete-space-reuse-recovery/17890/6 "2017-07-06T01:24:28Z")

</div>


