# Kibana APM without installing APM agents
**URL:** https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791
**Category:** APM
**Created:** [March 30, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791 "2021-03-30T12:42:00Z")
**Posts on this page:** 6
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@elk\_novice](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/elk_novice)
#### Post date: [March 30, 2021, 12:42pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791/1 "2021-03-30T12:42:00Z")
Hi All,
I am newbie. Please let me know if its possible to use KIBANA APM, without having APM server and APM agent. Can we use kibana APM just by doing ECS mapping in logstash and storing the index in elasticsearch.
OR is it mandatory to have APM agents installed and configured to use KIBANA APP?
Thanks
---
### Author:  [@felixbarny](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/felixbarny)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2021, 7:07am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791/2 "2021-03-31T07:07:47Z")
Hi and welcome 👋
> [@elk\_novice](#):
>
> Can we use kibana APM just by doing ECS mapping in logstash and storing the index in elasticsearch.
That's possible. All the data APM uses is just a regular index. While it's possible, it's definitely more convenient to use the existing APM Agents. May I ask why it's not an option for you?
Another option is to send data directly to APM Server via the intake API: [Elastic APM events intake API | APM User Guide [8.11] | Elastic](https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/apm/server/current/events-api.html). I'd recommend this over directly storing data in Elasticsearch.
---
### Author:  [@elk\_novice](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/elk_novice)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2021, 8:18am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791/3 "2021-03-31T08:18:47Z")
Thank you so much for info and quick response. Here the external system applications do not allow any code insertion even if it is two line. Hence, we wanted to check if only by doing ECS mapping can we make use of KIBANA APM.
And, also are there any mandatory / specific (Minimum number of fields) to have ECS mapped a in order to explore APM.
Thank you
---
### Author:  [@felixbarny](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/felixbarny)
#### Post date: [March 31, 2021, 10:06am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791/4 "2021-03-31T10:06:19Z")
Depending on the runtime/language of that 3rd party application, you might be able to attach an agent without any code changes. That's possible for Java-based applications, for example. See [Automatic setup with apm-agent-attach-standalone.jar | APM Java Agent Reference [1.x] | Elastic](https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/apm/agent/java/current/setup-attach-cli.html).
The APM Server intake API has links to the JSON schemas of the events (see [Events Intake API | APM Server Reference [7.12] | Elastic](https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/apm/server/current/events-api.html#events-api-schema-definition)). These contain information about the required and optional fields.
---
### Author:  [@elk\_novice](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/elk_novice)
#### Post date: [April 1, 2021, 5:53am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791/5 "2021-04-01T05:53:27Z")
Thank you so much for the info. External application is on SFDC (SalesForce) and application is developed using APEX. I am really not sure if we can use JAVA APM agent. Please confirm if it can be used OR is there any other suitable way to do it. Thank you
---
### Author:  [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)
#### Post date: [April 29, 2021, 5:54am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/kibana-apm-without-installing-apm-agents/268791/6 "2021-04-29T05:54:04Z")
This topic was automatically closed 28 days after the last reply. New replies are no longer allowed.