# Manage\_security Cluster privilege without role settings
**URL:** https://discuss.elastic.co/t/manage-security-cluster-privilege-without-role-settings/200303
**Category:** Elasticsearch
**Tags:** elastic-stack-security
**Created:** [September 19, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/manage-security-cluster-privilege-without-role-settings/200303 "2019-09-19T19:49:47Z")
**Posts on this page:** 4
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@pechora](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/pechora)
#### Post date: [September 19, 2019, 7:49pm UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/manage-security-cluster-privilege-without-role-settings/200303/1 "2019-09-19T19:49:47Z")
Greetings Everyone,
I am trying to set up Elasticsearch and Kibana for a minor logging project. I need to create a role in which the user has the access to create and delete users but cannot alter the definition of roles whatsoever i.e. A cluster privilege similar to manage\_security but without the access to roles API/tab in the security.
Is this feasible anyhow? Help would be really appreciated!
Thanks
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### Author:  [@MiTschMR](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/MiTschMR)
#### Post date: [September 23, 2019, 7:14am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/manage-security-cluster-privilege-without-role-settings/200303/2 "2019-09-23T07:14:36Z")
Hi @pechora
On [this](https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/elastic-stack-overview/current/security-privileges.html) site you can find all security privileges that you can assign to a role. I do not know if something like what you want is possible, but you can give it a try. Be careful, as some privileges rely on others. You can define these privileges either in Kibana or with POST-curl. Additionally you can define [Spaces](https://www.elastic.co/guide/en/kibana/7.3/xpack-spaces.html) in Kibana to seperate i.e. data and management.
Hope this helps.
MiTschMR
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### Author:  [@ikakavas](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/ikakavas)
#### Post date: [September 25, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/manage-security-cluster-privilege-without-role-settings/200303/3 "2019-09-25T09:21:29Z")
Something like this is not currently possible with our permission model. The short summary is that once a user has the permission to add users, they can create a user with a `superuser` role that can then alter the definition of roles.
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### Author:  [@system](https://discuss.elastic.co/u/system)
#### Post date: [October 23, 2019, 9:21am UTC](https://discuss.elastic.co/t/manage-security-cluster-privilege-without-role-settings/200303/4 "2019-10-23T09:21:37Z")
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