Why ES node starts recovering all the data from other nodes after reboot?

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will save a lot of
shard shuffling -
http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman konste@gmail.com wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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If you do disable allocation before you reboot a node and a client writes
to a shard that had a replica on that node, does the entire replica gets
copied when the node come up? Or does it get just updated?

On Thursday, 20 November 2014 19:52:26 UTC-7, Mark Walkom wrote:

You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will save a lot of
shard shuffling -
http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman <kon...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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It will enter recovery where it syncs at the segment level from the current
primary, then the translog gets shipped over and (re)played, which brings
it all up to date.

On 21 November 2014 14:51, Yves Dorfsman yves@zioup.com wrote:

If you do disable allocation before you reboot a node and a client writes
to a shard that had a replica on that node, does the entire replica gets
copied when the node come up? Or does it get just updated?

On Thursday, 20 November 2014 19:52:26 UTC-7, Mark Walkom wrote:

You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will save a lot of
shard shuffling - http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/
reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman kon...@gmail.com wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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The thing is that this is a disk level operation. It pretty much rsyncs the
files from the current master shard to the node when it comes back online.
This would be OK if the replica shards matched the master but that is only
normally the case if the shard was moved to the node after it was mostly
complete and then you've had only a few writes. Normally shards don't match
each other because the way the index is maintained is nondeterministic.

The translog replay is only used as a catch up after the rsync-like step.

This is something that is being worked on. Its certainly my biggest
complaint about elasticsearch but I'm confident that it'll get better.

Nik
On Nov 20, 2014 11:11 PM, "Mark Walkom" markwalkom@gmail.com wrote:

It will enter recovery where it syncs at the segment level from the
current primary, then the translog gets shipped over and (re)played, which
brings it all up to date.

On 21 November 2014 14:51, Yves Dorfsman yves@zioup.com wrote:

If you do disable allocation before you reboot a node and a client writes
to a shard that had a replica on that node, does the entire replica gets
copied when the node come up? Or does it get just updated?

On Thursday, 20 November 2014 19:52:26 UTC-7, Mark Walkom wrote:

You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will save a lot of
shard shuffling - http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/
reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman kon...@gmail.com wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on
that machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so
all indices except those for the current day never ever change until they
get deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some
(actually most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark
them as up to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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Disabling allocation helps, but it does not solve the problem completely.
Just like Nik, one of my complaints (although not my primary one). :slight_smile:

I found that recovery gets easier when doing a rolling restart. First few
servers always rebalance, the last ones do not.

--
Ivan

On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 9:51 PM, Mark Walkom markwalkom@gmail.com wrote:

You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will save a lot of
shard shuffling -
http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman konste@gmail.com wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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Thanks Nicolas.

Is this true on versions 0.9, or only on > 1?
I've had nodes die and restart, and they did copy everything!

On 2014-11-20 22:02, Nikolas Everett wrote:

The thing is that this is a disk level operation. It pretty much rsyncs the
files from the current master shard to the node when it comes back online.
This would be OK if the replica shards matched the master but that is only
normally the case if the shard was moved to the node after it was mostly
complete and then you've had only a few writes. Normally shards don't match
each other because the way the index is maintained is nondeterministic.

The translog replay is only used as a catch up after the rsync-like step.

This is something that is being worked on. Its certainly my biggest complaint
about elasticsearch but I'm confident that it'll get better.

Nik

On Nov 20, 2014 11:11 PM, "Mark Walkom" <markwalkom@gmail.com
mailto:markwalkom@gmail.com> wrote:

It will enter recovery where it syncs at the segment level from the
current primary, then the translog gets shipped over and (re)played, which
brings it all up to date.

On 21 November 2014 14:51, Yves Dorfsman <yves@zioup.com
<mailto:yves@zioup.com>> wrote:


    If you do disable allocation before you reboot a node and a client
    writes to a shard that had a replica on that node, does the entire
    replica gets copied when the node come up? Or does it get just updated?

    On Thursday, 20 November 2014 19:52:26 UTC-7, Mark Walkom wrote:

        You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will save a
        lot of shard shuffling -
        http://www.elasticsearch.org/__guide/en/elasticsearch/__reference/current/setup-__upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades
        <http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades>

        On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman <kon...@gmail.com> wrote:

            I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on
            Windows Server machines. Once in a while we have a need to
            reboot machines. The initial state - cluster is green and well
            balanced. One machine is gracefully taken offline and then
            after necessary service is performed it comes back online. All
            the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES
            service starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no
            usable data locally and recovers as much data as it deems
            necessary for balancing from other nodes. 

            This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards
            stored on that machine file system can be reused as they are.
            Cluster stores logs, so all indices except those for
            the current day never ever change until they get deleted.
            Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some
            (actually most) of the shards and instead of copying them over
            just mark them as up to date? 

            I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior
            and I'm looking to enable it. Any advice? 

            Thank you!
            Konstantin

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Its been true for as long as I've used Elasticsearch which as .9X (can't
remember which). Copying everything is pretty common because the index
operations are non-deterministic so the files might not be the same at
all. I pretty much assume I'm going to have to copy almost everything
every time I restart. It turns my rolling restarts into two day long
affairs. I know its being worked on.

Nik

On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 10:51 AM, Yves Dorfsman yves@zioup.com wrote:

Thanks Nicolas.

Is this true on versions 0.9, or only on > 1?
I've had nodes die and restart, and they did copy everything!

On 2014-11-20 22:02, Nikolas Everett wrote:

The thing is that this is a disk level operation. It pretty much rsyncs
the
files from the current master shard to the node when it comes back
online.
This would be OK if the replica shards matched the master but that is
only
normally the case if the shard was moved to the node after it was mostly
complete and then you've had only a few writes. Normally shards don't
match
each other because the way the index is maintained is nondeterministic.

The translog replay is only used as a catch up after the rsync-like step.

This is something that is being worked on. Its certainly my biggest
complaint
about elasticsearch but I'm confident that it'll get better.

Nik

On Nov 20, 2014 11:11 PM, "Mark Walkom" <markwalkom@gmail.com
mailto:markwalkom@gmail.com> wrote:

It will enter recovery where it syncs at the segment level from the
current primary, then the translog gets shipped over and (re)played,

which

brings it all up to date.

On 21 November 2014 14:51, Yves Dorfsman <yves@zioup.com
<mailto:yves@zioup.com>> wrote:


    If you do disable allocation before you reboot a node and a

client

    writes to a shard that had a replica on that node, does the

entire

    replica gets copied when the node come up? Or does it get just

updated?

    On Thursday, 20 November 2014 19:52:26 UTC-7, Mark Walkom wrote:

        You should disable allocation before you reboot, that will

save a

        lot of shard shuffling -

http://www.elasticsearch.org/__guide/en/elasticsearch/__reference/current/setup-__upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

        <

http://www.elasticsearch.org/guide/en/elasticsearch/reference/current/setup-upgrade.html#rolling-upgrades

        On 21 November 2014 13:48, Konstantin Erman <

kon...@gmail.com> wrote:

            I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on
            Windows Server machines. Once in a while we have a need

to

            reboot machines. The initial state - cluster is green

and well

            balanced. One machine is gracefully taken offline and

then

            after necessary service is performed it comes back

online. All

            the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon

as ES

            service starts on that machine, it assumes that there is

no

            usable data locally and recovers as much data as it deems
            necessary for balancing from other nodes.

            This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards
            stored on that machine file system can be reused as they

are.

            Cluster stores logs, so all indices except those for
            the current day never ever change until they get deleted.
            Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some
            (actually most) of the shards and instead of copying

them over

            just mark them as up to date?

            I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this

behavior

            and I'm looking to enable it. Any advice?

            Thank you!
            Konstantin

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Hi Konstantin,

Check out http://gibrown.com/2014/11/19/elasticsearch-the-broken-bits/

Otis

Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:48:56 PM UTC-5, Konstantin Erman wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is gracefully taken
offline and then after necessary service is performed it comes back online.
All the hardware and file system content is intact. As soon as ES service
starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no usable data locally and
recovers as much data as it deems necessary for balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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Yes, I have noticed that article right away, simply because I keep googling
ES related questions every day :slight_smile:

Unfortunately the only practical advice I could learn from that article is
to use doc_values instead of field data and it does not really help with
"full node rebuild after short down time" issue.

One thing I noticed while watching Windows Resource Monitor during those
lengthy node rebuilds though is that rebuilding node actively reads
its shards, so there is a chance that it tries to bring its local data back
to life and not just copies everything over from replicas, but
unfortunately performance wise reviving local shards takes as long if not
longer than dumb copying everything over from replicas.

On Saturday, November 22, 2014 8:35:59 AM UTC-8, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:

Hi Konstantin,

Check out http://gibrown.com/2014/11/19/elasticsearch-the-broken-bits/

Otis

Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:48:56 PM UTC-5, Konstantin Erman wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is
gracefully taken offline and then after necessary service is performed it
comes back online. All the hardware and file system content is intact. As
soon as ES service starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no
usable data locally and recovers as much data as it deems necessary for
balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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On 2014-11-22 09:35, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:

Hi Konstantin,

Check out http://gibrown.com/2014/11/19/elasticsearch-the-broken-bits/

Good writing! Thanks.

I wonder if there's any drawback from cutting indices in smaller (tiny?) shards?

My thinking is this: We don't really change data in our bigger indices, we
just keep adding to them, so ultimately as we re-build node, they should all
have the same version of the old shards, which should make re-start, and even
re-build from backups much faster.

--
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Tiny shards have more ever head and aren't going to score results as
accurately.
On Nov 22, 2014 2:04 PM, "Yves Dorfsman" yves@zioup.com wrote:

On 2014-11-22 09:35, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:

Hi Konstantin,

Check out http://gibrown.com/2014/11/19/elasticsearch-the-broken-bits/

Good writing! Thanks.

I wonder if there's any drawback from cutting indices in smaller (tiny?)
shards?

My thinking is this: We don't really change data in our bigger indices, we
just keep adding to them, so ultimately as we re-build node, they should
all
have the same version of the old shards, which should make re-start, and
even
re-build from backups much faster.

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FWIW with Lucene 5, segment and index checksums will arrive, and
Elasticsearch will stop retrieving shards if local ones match remote ones.

In the meantime you can increase indices.recovery.concurrent_streams to
something like 16 or even higher, so the recovery takes less than a minute.

Jörg

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Konstantin Erman konste@gmail.com wrote:

Yes, I have noticed that article right away, simply because I keep
googling ES related questions every day :slight_smile:

Unfortunately the only practical advice I could learn from that article is
to use doc_values instead of field data and it does not really help with
"full node rebuild after short down time" issue.

One thing I noticed while watching Windows Resource Monitor during those
lengthy node rebuilds though is that rebuilding node actively reads
its shards, so there is a chance that it tries to bring its local data back
to life and not just copies everything over from replicas, but
unfortunately performance wise reviving local shards takes as long if not
longer than dumb copying everything over from replicas.

On Saturday, November 22, 2014 8:35:59 AM UTC-8, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:

Hi Konstantin,

Check out http://gibrown.com/2014/11/19/elasticsearch-the-broken-bits/

Otis

Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:48:56 PM UTC-5, Konstantin Erman wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is
gracefully taken offline and then after necessary service is performed it
comes back online. All the hardware and file system content is intact. As
soon as ES service starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no
usable data locally and recovers as much data as it deems necessary for
balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on that
machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so all
indices except those for the current day never ever change until they get
deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some (actually
most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark them as up
to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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Advice to increase indices.recovery.concurrent_streams sounds suspiciously
specific to me :slight_smile: What made you so confident that it is the bottleneck for
recovery in most cases? And how cluster.routing.allocation.node_concurrent_recoveries
should be set?

On Sunday, November 23, 2014 6:27:40 AM UTC-8, Jörg Prante wrote:

FWIW with Lucene 5, segment and index checksums will arrive, and
Elasticsearch will stop retrieving shards if local ones match remote ones.

In the meantime you can increase indices.recovery.concurrent_streams to
something like 16 or even higher, so the recovery takes less than a minute.

Jörg

On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 7:43 PM, Konstantin Erman <kon...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:

Yes, I have noticed that article right away, simply because I keep
googling ES related questions every day :slight_smile:

Unfortunately the only practical advice I could learn from that article
is to use doc_values instead of field data and it does not really help with
"full node rebuild after short down time" issue.

One thing I noticed while watching Windows Resource Monitor during those
lengthy node rebuilds though is that rebuilding node actively reads
its shards, so there is a chance that it tries to bring its local data back
to life and not just copies everything over from replicas, but
unfortunately performance wise reviving local shards takes as long if not
longer than dumb copying everything over from replicas.

On Saturday, November 22, 2014 8:35:59 AM UTC-8, Otis Gospodnetic wrote:

Hi Konstantin,

Check out http://gibrown.com/2014/11/19/elasticsearch-the-broken-bits/

Otis

Monitoring * Alerting * Anomaly Detection * Centralized Log Management
Solr & Elasticsearch Support * http://sematext.com/

On Thursday, November 20, 2014 9:48:56 PM UTC-5, Konstantin Erman wrote:

I work on an experimental cluster of ES nodes running on Windows Server
machines. Once in a while we have a need to reboot machines. The initial
state - cluster is green and well balanced. One machine is
gracefully taken offline and then after necessary service is performed it
comes back online. All the hardware and file system content is intact. As
soon as ES service starts on that machine, it assumes that there is no
usable data locally and recovers as much data as it deems necessary for
balancing from other nodes.

This behavior puzzles me, because most of the data shards stored on
that machine file system can be reused as they are. Cluster stores logs, so
all indices except those for the current day never ever change until they
get deleted. Can't ES node detect that it has perfect copies of some
(actually most) of the shards and instead of copying them over just mark
them as up to date?

I suspect I don't know about some step to enable this behavior and I'm
looking to enable it. Any advice?

Thank you!
Konstantin

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The default indices recovery performance is limited by 3 concurrent streams
and 20MB/sec. This is very slow on my machines. YMMV.

Jörg

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Konstantin Erman konste@gmail.com wrote:

Advice to increase indices.recovery.concurrent_streams sounds
suspiciously specific to me :slight_smile: What made you so confident that it is the
bottleneck for recovery in most cases? And how cluster.routing.allocation.node_concurrent_recoveries
should be set?

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It used to be 2 concurrent streams. Has the default been upped in recent
versions? I agree, that number is awfully low. If you can disable indexing
during rolling restarts, those numbers can be much higher.

--
Ivan

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 5:48 PM, joergprante@gmail.com <
joergprante@gmail.com> wrote:

The default indices recovery performance is limited by 3 concurrent
streams and 20MB/sec. This is very slow on my machines. YMMV.

Jörg

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Konstantin Erman konste@gmail.com
wrote:

Advice to increase indices.recovery.concurrent_streams sounds
suspiciously specific to me :slight_smile: What made you so confident that it is the
bottleneck for recovery in most cases? And how cluster.routing.allocation
.node_concurrent_recoveries should be set?

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I don't believe we can disable indexing. ES cluster collects the logs from
a huge server farm and those logs come in a steady rate. If we disable indexing
we start dropping log events! Do I get it right?

On Monday, November 24, 2014 8:58:21 AM UTC-8, Ivan Brusic wrote:

It used to be 2 concurrent streams. Has the default been upped in recent
versions? I agree, that number is awfully low. If you can disable indexing
during rolling restarts, those numbers can be much higher.

--
Ivan

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 5:48 PM, joerg...@gmail.com <javascript:> <
joerg...@gmail.com <javascript:>> wrote:

The default indices recovery performance is limited by 3 concurrent
streams and 20MB/sec. This is very slow on my machines. YMMV.

Jörg

On Sun, Nov 23, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Konstantin Erman <kon...@gmail.com
<javascript:>> wrote:

Advice to increase indices.recovery.concurrent_streams sounds
suspiciously specific to me :slight_smile: What made you so confident that it is the
bottleneck for recovery in most cases? And how cluster.routing.
allocation.node_concurrent_recoveries should be set?

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